The Bachelor – Was It Really an Ultimatum?

Fantasy Suite week is here! They’ve been teasing this since the beginning of the season, and I can’t wait to chat about it with all of you and see what you think. Did everything happen how you expected it? Did Madison give Peter an ultimatum? Let’s jump right in!

Madison Pulling Peter Post Rose Ceremony

Heck yes Madison! I know a lot of people are probably going to say that she knew what she was signing up for and are not okay with how she approached Peter after the rose ceremony. But I couldn’t be more proud of her! And she didn’t give him an ultimatum. She knows in her heart that she couldn’t get engaged to someone that slept with somebody else a couple days before and she let him know that. She didn’t say “or else”, she didn’t even say I 100% won’t move forward. She said she didn’t know if she’d be able to move forward and she said that actions speak louder than words. Her values are that sex is between a man and a woman when they are married. And she’s simply telling him that she truly cares about him and wants it to work, but if he thinks it’s okay to have sex a few days before proposing to her, that’s not cool with her. And hell-freaking-yeah for a woman finally standing up and saying that! Or man! It’s just never said on the show.

Don’t get me wrong, I get why people have sex with more than one person on the show. I did it because I don’t think you fall in love on the show and you’re trying to decide who you want to propose to even when you’re not really in love. What’s the next best thing to gauge it by? Your sexual chemistry. I’m not even kidding! You guys might think I’m crazy, but I guarantee people are torn at the end of the season and make the decision based on how things went in the bedroom. And quite honestly, sexual chemistry is important. Some people choose to wait to have sex until they’re married to find out. I have never been that person. To me it was important to find out beforehand. Ha! But I totally respect Madison. Not only for her beliefs and the things she’s chosen for her life, but for speaking up about it and letting Peter know where she stands without being forceful. I think she did it the best way she possibly could. And I applaud her for it!

madison peter ultimatum?

And the more I think about this, did you think she gave him an ultimatum? Well yeah, by definition she did. But ultimatum has such a negative connotation to it. Like would you think it was a strange ultimatum for me to ask Kevin not to sleep with someone else days before we got engaged? Of course not! And look, I realize this is the Bachelor and things are different, but the people are still the same! They are real people with real feelings and real expectations about relationships. I’m sure when Madison signed up she did it for the experience, never realizing she would get this far or it could possibly turn into a real relationship. This happens to every single person in the history of the show. You go in not realizing how much you can fall, and then are blown away when it actually turns into love. You know that there’s a good chance she could end up with Peter in the end, and it seems to me like that’s something she really wants, she has to speak her truth. I’m proud of her for saying it before the fantasy suites rather than waiting until after.

Also, I feel like this is going to be a hot topic in the sense of this being compared to Luke P on Hannah’s season, and how people are treating this as a double standard. Let me just say this, the difference here was the delivery. It was okay for Luke to ask Hannah about it, but it was how he went about it that was the issue. It seemed like he was publicing shaming Hannah. I just looked back at my post about Luke and Hannah’s discussion, and I still feel the same way. He had every right to ask about it, because it doesn’t happen in the real world like it does on the Bachelor. BUT the biggest thing was that it just felt like another huge manipulation that we had seen him trying to do again and again. Madison hasn’t ever made us feel that way. She was very very careful about what she said, and emphasized that she wasn’t telling him what to do or not to do, but rather that it would be really hard for her to move forward. Which to me is a perfect normal response to being in that sort of situation!

The Living Situation

It is absolutely disgusting to me that the girls are forced to live together at this point. Every single season for the last 10 years, and possibly before that but I didn’t watch before that, the top three is separated. And that’s because of fantasy suites. It’s extremely awkward for the girls to spend time together at this point. The relationships are so serious, and yes physical, and sexual intimacy plays a huge role this week. I feel terrible for the girls. It so so so so wrong.

And they are making it seem like one girl comes home from her date And then the next girl goes on the date. Making them back to back to back. Unless things of changed, on my season, the fantasy suites were at least 48 hours apart. So there is always a day in between. I don’t know I guess it doesn’t make it that much better, but I feel like having at least a night in between makes it feel a little bit better to me.

madison peter ultimatum?

Hannah Ann’s Fantasy Suite Date

I still can’t get over how young Hannah Ann looks. Watching them make out just made me so uncomfortable. Anyway, if he doesn’t end up with her in the end, there are things that are very upsetting to me about the date. The first thing is that Hannah Ann’s Dad didn’t mean “don’t say you’re falling in love with her unless you are”. He meant don’t lead her on. Meaning that if he’s not gonna pick her in the end, don’t tell her you love her. And yes we could argue him saying I’m falling in love with you and I love you are two different things. Yes, they are. But leading someone on is the same. And if Peter doesn’t pick Hannah in the end, which I honestly don’t think he will, then I’m really disappointed with him for this.

He also said “I don’t want you to worry about us,” and I just feel like that’s so unfair to say unless he’s 100% positive he’s picking her in the end. We shall see. Again, I don’t think he is. I think it’s pretty obvious from the cliffhangers what’s going to happen here. Which I’ll get you in a minute.

Victoria’s Date

A quote from Peter: “There’s obviously fire there. Some people might think there’s too much of it there, but for me, I’m actually really attracted to that. It’s never going to be a boring relationship” What?!?!?! Somebody please tell me he’s not referring to the fighting. Trust me, Peter. As someone who is married with two small children there will be plenty to fight about with your spouse one day. Ha! Every person I’ve ever known that has been in a relationship that fights before kids is extremely tumultuous after kids. That’s definitely something you do not want in a relationship before you’re married.

madison peter ultimatum?

We also hear him tell her that he doesn’t want a monotone relationship, he wants a relationship that challenges him. I think he misunderstands how that phrase is used when it comes to relationships. Kevin challenges me. He challenges me to be better because he is there to lift me up when I’m feeling down about myself. If I’m afraid to try something because I think I’ll fail, he’s there to hold my hand along the way, even if I do. Someone who challenges you is someone that makes you better, not someone who pulls you down. I feel like when people in unhealthy relationships say things like that, it’s their way of justifying the fighting in the relationship. I’m curious to hear what you guys think. Maybe I’m a bad person to ask about this because I have always had a very stable relationship with my husband. But I just don’t think a healthy marriage can be based on a shaky foundation.

Madison’s Date

Let me start by posing this question to you guys. Should Madison not have gone in the show, even if she thought Peter was a match for her, just because she’s not okay with the guy she loves sleeping with other women the week he proposes to her? Really think about that. She shouldn’t go on the show, shouldn’t meet the potential love of her life, because she has standards? I just think that’s crazy. Yes, she knew what she signed up for, but I say this every season, you never truly know because you don’t realize that you could really develop feelings for someone. You think it’s just a TV show… until you’re on it.

And I know the show makes it seem like she wasn’t clear about not wanting him to sleep with the other girls the week before. But it was obviously very clear to him. He said the intimacy thing was on his mind all week. That it would really hurt her and something she wouldn’t be okay with. But now all of a sudden it matters to him when she says it would be enough for her to go home and be a dealbreaker. Well that’s pretty much what she said the week before. So he’s okay with crushing her, but not okay with her leaving him? I’m just not cool with that. I think he’s known it’s been Madison all along and I think he should’ve made the decision not to sleep with the other girls.

To put it in perspective for you. I didn’t sleep with anybody but the person I chose in the end. Granted, one of my top three guys sent himself home. So I don’t know what would’ve happened with him. I think there’s probably a good chance I would’ve slept with him to be honest. Sorry to my husband if you’re reading this at some point. Ha! But the second guy, who I had a fantasy suite date with, I made it a point to have a producer call the room an hour into our fantasy suite date to say something came up and I was needed. So I left the room. I didn’t want to sleep with anybody else. I didn’t want to do that to the person I was about to get engaged too. So do I think it’s okay to sleep with more than one person during fantasy suites? I do. I do because I think it’s important for a relationship and it seems like it’s important to Peter. But what I’m not okay with is that I truly believe that he’s known it was Madison all along. I think he just should’ve had the self-control not to move forward with the other girls sexually. Assuming it was both. It might have been one.

madison peter ultimatum?

I don’t even think Maddie was crying after he told her necessarily because he slept with the other girls. It’s not the act of sleep with the other girls that she can’t get past I think it’s that the expectation she has for her future husband would be not to sleep with other girls when he says he’s falling in love with her. And I think that’s a totally fine expectation to have. I think she was crying so hard because she knew she had to walk away from this relationship that she wanted to work so badly. It is heartbreaking. My heart was breaking for her.

When Maddie walks away and we see Peter watching her go I guarantee that wasn’t them saying goodbye for the night. I feel like she was going to talk to a producer or something because Peter would’ve been way more emotional. What do you think happens from here? I think without a doubt he goes after her right?! So so so much to discuss! Let’s talk in the comments below.

Last Week’s Looks!

I’m actually wrote this post a few days early because our family is in Hawaii!!! This past week, I shared a few looks that I am going to be bringing with me on the trip! I am going to recap two of my favorite looks here that still have great stock! Also, make sure to check out my post from today that has pics from our trip, my thoughts on our hotel, and I linked some of the outfits that we have worn so far! Here’s a sneak peek 😉

mommy and me dresses hawaii

  1. MY DRESS | 2. MOLLY’S DRESS

White Lace Dress

Let’s start with this absolutely gorgeous dress/cover-up/sexy sleepwear look! I’m not even sure if this is considered a cover-up. Maybe it’s more considered lingerie? I think it could be worn as a dress, a sexy nightgown, or a cover-up at the beach! I feel like it’s versatile! All I know for sure is that when I put it on, I felt absolutely beautiful. I feel like this would be really pretty for a bride to wear to bed the night of her honeymoon! But it also comes in a bunch of other colors so you could even wear this as a dress to the beach during the summer. The one thing I will say about the white is that it is slightly sheer so you would have to wear a slip under the white if you decide to wear it as a dress. But from what I understand based on the reviews the darker colors are not as sheer. One person in the reviews described it as an instant boob job! Ha! And I kind of have to say I agree. I felt like my boobs look so good in this dress!

madison peter ultimatum?madison peter ultimatum?

 1. WHITE DRESS

After I posted, I found that the white dress I am wearing below also comes in a maxi dress in a bunch of colors. It is a great option for people that want to be a little more covered, but still wear this gorgeous dress!

beach vacation dress madison peter ultimatum?

 

 1. WHITE DRESS

I could totally see myself putting a slip under this and wearing it to the beach with sandals and a jean jacket over it. But if you just want to get it as really cute and sexy PJs to wear to bed I say go for it! My point is I just felt incredible in it and I think many of you will too! The reviews are pretty amazing! And if you’re reading this, I’m guessing you trust my review and my review of it is I feel insanely beautiful in it. It’s TTS size FYI. I’m wearing a medium.

Brunch by the Ocean Look!

I love the white and neutral tones in this last look! One day on our trip, I’m hoping me and Kevin can do a nice bottomless mimosa brunch while our moms watch the kiddos! This is definitely what I’d be wearing. I don’t know if I mentioned this, but my mom and Kevin’s mom are with us on the trip so we can have some time to relax and have alone time while they watch the kiddos. It has been so amazing having them here!

You might recognize this cream colored cami because I blogged about it in this post before. I love how versatile it is. I can wear it with a pair of dress pants to the office, then out to drinks with girlfriends. But I can also dress it down with a pair of white linen pants for a vacation look.

white linen vacation pant madison peter ultimatum?

  1. CREAM CAMI | 2. WHITE LINEN PANTS | 3. SIMILAR PRIVACY PLEASE HAT | 4. HEELS

By the way, I feel like nobody can go on vacation without a pair of white linen pants. You can dress them up and down. I’m wearing them with nude heels here. On the trip I’ve  mostly been wearing sneakers and sandals. And occasionally my new wedges here and there. By the way, I asked you guys for help the other day finding a great pair of wedges, and I just wanna say thank you so much for all of you that commented on my little blog post with ideas! I was able to find a couple great pairs that I ordered for my trip!

It looks like stock is getting low on them, so I am going to link a few similar pairs here at a few price points.

And last but not least my big floppy hat. You will rarely see me outside in the sun without a hat these days. So I’m brought multiple to Hawaii with me. Sun protection is one of the most important things in my life now and I love that I can take care of my skin and wear a cute fashionable accessory all at the same time. Check out my post from earlier today for pics of me and Molly with Mommy and Me hats. They are so cute!

white linen vacation pant madison peter ultimatum?

Hope you all had a great start to your week! Now to chat about the Bachelor… I’m going to try to comment back as much as I can since we are in a different time zone right now!!! What do you think, did Madison give him an ultimatum?

111 Thoughts

111 thoughts on “The Bachelor – Was It Really an Ultimatum?

  1. Absolutely not! I agree with your Ali 1000% ! I think that she set her standards and she laid them out for him. I think people forget while watching this show that even though we are watching the “bachelor” or “bachelorette” we are watching a relationship form between TWO people, not one. That other person is allowed to have feelings and to be honest about this feelings. Even though it is a “game”, best way I can put it, when this show ends, all your are left with is a relationship between two people. So I think that is absolutely necessary and perfectly okay that Madison has an opinion and I applaud her for voicing it knowing that some people will be so negative about it. This was the first episode of the season I felt true emotions were expressed. Can’t wait to see how it plays out next week ! Love your blog and look forward to reading weekly ❤️

  2. Absolutely not! I agree with your Ali 1000% ! I think that she set her standards and she laid them out for him. I think people forget while watching this show that even though we are watching the “bachelor” or “bachelorette” we are watching a relationship form between TWO people, not one. That other person is allowed to have feelings and to be honest about this feelings. Even though it is a “game”, best way I can put it, when this show ends, all your are left with is a relationship between two people. So I think that is absolutely necessary and perfectly okay that Madison has an opinion and I applaud her for voicing it knowing that some people will be so negative about it. This was the first episode of the season I felt true emotions were expressed. Can’t wait to see how it plays out next week ! Love your blog and look forward to reading weekly ❤️

  3. Oh my goodness these are all my thoughts exactly!! I agree it was all about the delivery with Maddie vs Luke. And her behavior the entire season compared to his. I also think back to how Colton sent the other 2 girls home before fantasy suites because he knew it was Cassie all along. I wish Peter had the maturity and self control to do the same. I was also completely disgusted that they made the girls live together at this point. That really bothered me the entire time. And last, I think Peter’s comments about his relationship with Victoria just show how immature he is which is something I’ve thought about him during this entire season and how he’s handled things. Very disappointing season unfortunately.

    1. I agree on all these points! I really think Peter knew by this point it was going to be Madison and just has no self control. I felt so bad for her watching the end of their date.

  4. I disagree with Madison, she is imposing her own standards on someone else. She can have her standards for herself but it’s so wrong to expect that in that situation, everybody knows about the step before the proposal. I do think Luke gave the same alternative, def in a different delivery but same message at the end of the day. You signed up to date and share someone, why did it change now? Obviously in real life, you can be exclusive. But on this show you KNOW and it’s so selfish to expect that from him. Ps: agree that he led Hannah on by saying that she has nothing to worry about.

    1. I think it is a bit more nuanced. She told him that’s what SHE needs in a relationship but that if HE didn’t feel that way, he could act for himself how he saw fit. If he decided he wanted her, that was the package she could offer. His decision. ie she wasn’t imposing anything..

    2. You think it’s wrong to expect the person you are dating to not sleep with someone else? This is real life, it’s not a scripted TV show where the actors are paid and then go home to their real lives. Previous bachelors and bachelorettes have stated ONLY sleeping with the person they knew was their final choice (or no one at all). Peter is the type who’d have sex with a stripper at his bachelor party because “it’s expected for a guy to go wild at his bachelor party” and people would criticize the wife for being upset about it, it means nothing, it’s the context, etc. It’s NOT ok in ANY situation to sleep with someone else if you are in love and about to propose to someone or marry them, not even a reality show. Just because previous contestants accepted being cheated on has become normalized on the show, does make it ok.

      1. I TOTALLY agree with your comment!!! This show is about falling in love not sleeping around to see who would be best in the bedroom. It’s about finding your the love of your life!

    3. I think she was pretty clear on the fact that she doesn’t expect anyone to have the same standards that she has set for herself. She was also clear on the fact that she might not be able to stretch herself to be with a man that can obviously be “intimate” with multiple women in a week.
      He is not the man for her! She has a strong Christian faith. She needs a man that shares that same faith. She should let him go.

  5. My biggest problem is why is it ok for Madison to do this but Luke P did the same exact thing and he was ripped apart. They both are very religious and could not in their hearts be with someone who slept with someone else during that time. For Madison she is following who she is but for Luke P he was a big for saying those things and slut shaming… thoughts?

    1. I agree! I think because Madison is a woman we want to praise her, and the delivery may have been different but the message is the same: this whole thing rubs me the wrong way.

    2. I think Madison was much less aggressive than Luke was, but you’re right that at the end of the day, it’s the same message. I do not agree with her views on sex at all. I respect her feelings, but I also respect Peter’s feelings, and at the end of the day I just think they aren’t right for each other. Sex is a HUGE thing to disagree about that fundamentally.

      1. My husband and I thought the same that Peter was the windmill guy in Hannah Brown’s episode, guess she didn’t watch or hear about it, which I doubt.

        Although, women have standards to live by and I would like to respect that. However, she would have not signed up for this to avoid heartaches and being heartbroken.

    3. I’m unpopular- I liked Luke P and had no problem with him stating his feelings about sex. I thought he was right to do it. BUT if I had to pick apart the differences I see two:
      1. Madison told Peter before any of the fantasy suite dates occurred. So he knew her feelings going in. Luke told Hannah on his fantasy suite date when she’d already had other dates.
      2. Luke is a born again virgin. Madison is an actual virgin who has truly saved herself for a loving committed marriage.

      To me those two things really change the context of the situation.

  6. I agree with everything you said! I am so proud of Madison for sticking her ground! What I didn’t like was the way the other girls spoke about her and her standards.

    1. I agree I thought that was unnecessary and hateful and came from a place of insecurity for those two girls. But it also would have never come up if they hadn’t been forced to live together which was just a ridiculous move by producers.

  7. I disagree about Madison.

    I haven’t really liked her form the beginning so I could bias. (This was actually my least favorite group of women ever) but I think going on this show knowing the fantasy suites could happen was wrong. I get it. I wouldn’t want my future husband sleeping with someone else a week before- but I also know I’d be a horrible contestant on the bachelor because I couldn’t deal with the competition. Ha! I don’t know. I just don’t think it’s right-and I think it is similar to a Luke P but we reframe it because we are women and don’t want to shame her for having standards.

    I’m in agreement with you though, that I think people go on thinking it will never work and that Peter should’ve thought about what she said before sleeping with the other women. But I just don’t think what she did or said was fair.

    It’s a tough one. I think there’s many sides here.

  8. I just want to start this comment with this: I hate hate hate watching the first several episodes of this show because of the drama, the girls that are not there “for the right reasons” and because the group dates drive me bonkers. For the past several seasons, I read your blog every week so I know whats going on, who is who and for the weekly recaps. When I join in on actually watching the show beginning at hometowns, I do not feel left out so thank you for that. I Love that Madison stuck to her guns and didnt deviate from her values. I also think it was disgusting that they made the girls stay together. I find it almost emotionally abusive. Can you even imagine!?!?! Anyways, I wanted to ask you what you thought of Hannah Ann when she was talking about how she wouldnt ask questions and “do what you have to do”? I dont think that is something a girl who is ready to get married says. It seems more like she is saying what she thinks he wants to hear. It made me sad that she said that, honestly. Anyways. thank you for posting the best recaps every week. Very much appreciated! Love following you and your sweet family!

    1. Totally agree with you on Hannah Ann’s comments!! My husband was watching with me and he was completely appalled by the words coming out of her mouth. I agree she was just saying what she thought he wanted to hear and she is 100% not ready for marriage. We all know this is how the fantasy suite week goes but hearing it out loud from one of the remaining contestants just felt very sad.

    2. I actually felt the opposite about Hannah Ann’s comments. She knows that she’s not in an exclusive relationship, and I think she just wanted him to know she wouldn’t hold anything against him. I also think the producers may have edited her comments to make it look like she was doing the complete opposite of Madison.

      I totally agree that making them stay in the same suite was disgusting. How awkward!

    3. The Hannah Ann”do what you have to do” convo bothered me too and I came to the comments to see if anyone else felt the same. I just felt like she said what she thought he wanted to hear and said too much. It’s like she was making herself standout against Madison (and at that point she knew more then Peter regarding Madison’s feelings on intimacy). It just seemed like she was trying to say and do opposite of Madison and feeling like it will bode well for her in the end. Also I’m sure it was a lot easier for her to say all that given the fact she knew Madison would not sleep with him.

  9. There is so much to talk about!

    Most of this I agree with you on! I don’t think it was an ultimatum, I think she was trying to have him understand where she is coming from. She has a certain expectation for her husband that’s she dreamed of her entire life and it has to be hard to be let down on that. She wants him to only want her and getting engaged only 6 days after sleeping with someone else wouldn’t say to me, I only want you. But maybe that’s the show?

    As far as the girls living together, it was awkward and I’m really disappointed in the producers. You can tell so much this season that it’s about the drama or the views, not about love and I’m over it.

    I’m looking forward to seeing how this ends, but I believe it ends with Madison.

  10. This why I only need To read your blog Ali. I agree with you… 100% of it. And yes it’s about time a woman stood up for herself. And I’ve read your blog all this time, and I think this is a new detail you never told us about getting that phone call as your way out of the fantasy suite that night… that was very smart of you.
    I’m thinking Madi told him much more in the hanger than they aired on TV.
    You brought out so many good points in your blog, such as the girls having to stay together….Awkward!!! I’m glad you’re honest in your opinion that it’s just not right, Watching Peter and Victoria, looks like a train wreck to me. I think she needs counseling.
    Thank you again for keeping up with your blog every week. It’s very very nice to hear your comments and behind the scenes info.

    1. I agree about Victoria. She’s too immature, and I also think Peter is too immature. The only mature one is Madison. I haven’t liked this season at all. The shows seem to get raunchier. When people look like these ‘contestants’ do, I wonder why they have to go on national TV to find a mate???? There have to be ulterior motives for a lot of them.

      1. I agree that a Madison has a composure most of the women this season have lacked. I think she has more growing up to do – accomplished as she seems to be, emotionally her attachment to Peter raises questions : l how much choosing is she doing as an adult versus as the child of religious parents versus plain old hormones.

        I laughed when you wrote about how great these people look,and not needing the *help* of Bachelor : ) . we get adventure, we get instagram followers and fame…as to Madison’s PUrE character I have to say: what is so pure about any of th fame and game chasing. if she really came in for Peter, I would have thought she’d have a at inter loan regarding ther celibacy.

        Going back to maturity I found something immature in her idealization of the prize it seems to be to her, and something very sad about how little Virginity seemed to impress Peter. more like he was being tolerant of it, Sigh.

        1. I agree with your comments about her parents – it bothered me how they both kept saying ‘remember YOUR values Madison’, “make sure he knows about what YOUR beliefs are”. Like she’s an adult – let her manage her own virginity, mom and dad!

  11. I don’t believe one but that she gave him an ultimatum. To me it was obvious she was trying to express what her expectations are for her future husband. She even said it multiple times that she was not giving him an ultimatum but stating that she could not lower her standards for herself more then she already has during this season. I did appreciate how he was honest with her and being intimate with the other girls but left that he was throwing it in her face when she was already down that he felt the same way coming into this week with the other girls.

    I agree with you that it was awful for the girls to have to stay with each other. They definitely did it to bring up more drama between the girls.

    I honestly think that Madison does not come to the rose ceremony and I honestly don’t blame her. I would have a hard time being proposed to knowing that just a couple days ago he slept with two other women.

    Peter is definitely putting way more effort into his and Victoria’s relationship then he is getting in return. If they were to last they would have a lot of things to work on like their communication skills. I found it weird that she wanted him to spell it out on what he wanted from her. I don’t feel like she has any expectations for herself and continues to get upset when he asks her certain questions about herself. I think that if you are having that hard of a time expressing yourself that you potentially are hiding something you don’t want him to find out and that’s why she gets so upset at those certain questions.

    I really hope that him and Madison can get through this. It would be a lot of work but I think they could do it. I just don’t know if she would be willing to change her standards she has for herself.

  12. Thanks for your thoughtful commentary Ali! I think you are right except for one thing: “Every person I’ve ever known that has been in a relationship that fights before kids is extremely tumultuous after kids.”

    I hope what you mean by “fights” is blow-ups or something, because it’s pretty unrealistic to think you would never have any type of fight with your loved one, before having children or otherwise. Of course, that does NOT mean I think Victoria is a good pick, since clearly it doesn’t work between them. I just thought your comment was generalizing a little.

    It’s pretty clear to me that he’ll chase after Madi, but I don’t think they’re a match at all because their values are so different. Sexual exploration is obviously important to Peter, and it was important to Madi for him to NOT explore sexually. Their needs are opposite.

    1. I know that in my marriage, my husband and I rarely ever had any disagreements or arguments for the first four years of our relationship, before we had kids. Kids can add so much stress to a relationship and cause a lot more disagreements and arguments. I think that’s what Ali meant! And I know for my own relationship, I 100% a agree.

    2. Oh yes I totally agree. It makes me so sad to think he will chase after Madi with fear she will compromise for him. He messed up big time if he was going to choose her and I hope she stays true to herself. She is the best one for him.

  13. I’m soooo angry right now at Peter! I Have been Team Madison from the start and she deserves WAY BETTER since she set her standards with him ahead of time but he made bad choices. His relationship with Victoria is a joke. Communication is number one and they have none. I don’t know what to think about Hannah, but I haven’t seen them have any realistic conversation this whole time. UGH

    1. Victoria has lots of issues she needs counseling. It would never work for them.
      Last 2 will be Hannah Ann & Madison if she doesnt leave which I think she will.

  14. I definitely agree with everything you said. I think he knew what Madison expects and if he really didn’t want her to leave then he should have had some control. But I can’t wait to see next week. I think this will just keep getting better. And last but not least, I’m super proud of Madison. I think what she did was super brave and I hope everyone shows her love for what she did!!!

  15. As someone who is saving myself for marriage as well, I completely understand her pulling him aside at that point to talk about it. And I agree that it was a non-ultimatum, ultimatum, if that even makes sense. What drove me crazy was that she didn’t give him any background! She should have just completely laid it all out, like she did on their date. She should have told him then that she was saving herself for marriage and that she had an expectation of not getting engaged to someone who had a week before had sex with other girls. He needed the whole picture of who she was and why that was important to her. And honestly, I think she should have brought that up sooner than this. Way sooner. At least hometown date, if not their second one-on-one date. I think, with full context, he might have made a different choice.

    I have never been so pissed off at this show and the producers than I was with their decision to house the three girls together like this for this week. How completely disrespectful and inconsiderate of their feelings. It was AWFUL. By the time it gets to hometowns, they should have as little interaction with each other as possible, so they can focus on their relationship. Just viewing that pulled me out of their relationships, so I can’t imagine what that must have done to them. It was wrong. Flat out wrong. And they should never, NEVER do it again. Just horrible. Disgusting. They should be ashamed of themselves for putting them through that just for entertainment value and drama. Ugh!

    I could actually see him and Hannah Anne being good together. And to compare how she handled fantasy suite week to how Madison handled it, it was night and day. And I think it demonstrates that she and Peter are more suited for each other and compatible than he and Madison. They actually seem so natural and comfortable with each other, and it just seems to work. Not sure if he’s going to pick her or if it would really work out, but I could see the potential there.

    I am still so pissed off that Victoria is still there. That relationship is still toxic and still unhealthy. Just because they were able to get through a date without a completely break down doesn’t mean much. I think Peter is confusing conflict with passion. They are NOT the same thing! Their communication still sucks. And frankly, sex only complicates that. If the only time you’re not fighting is when you’re having sex, that’s really bad, and sex will only confuse the issue and make it even harder to really communicate. I’m just…so over her being there and so over him not seeing all the red flags. And worse, turning red flags into roses. He sees the red flags, but he doesn’t see them for what they are, and that is so frustrating.

    I feel bad for Madison. She’s struggling with her feelings and her convictions. And I think her convictions need to come first and win here. If you have such strong beliefs, then you should be with someone who shares them, not just respects or tolerates them. That’s true compatibility, and they don’t have it. She made her feelings clear. He knew how she felt, and he still make the choices he made. The only options here are that she stays true to her convictions and leaves or she compromises them and stays. And if she stays, that’s something that’s going to haunt her for the rest of her life, and I can’t see them actually getting past that. It needs to be over, as hard as it is.

    So, to sum it up: I could see him with Hannah Anne, Victoria needs to go, and Madison needs to go. But I’m not sure he’ll actually see any of this. I think he’s pulled more towards Victoria and Madison, which is maddening. It’s like he’s blind to the reality. And I still think he was best with Hannah Brown and would be best with her. But if he doesn’t take a good hard look at what is actually happening, this is not going to end well.

    1. I should also add that there are differences between Luke P and Madison. First of all, if you’re going to have high standards, you should have behavior that supports those standards and backs them up. Madison did. Luke P had the exact opposite. His behavior was completely contradictory to his supposed values. Second, yes, it was how it was presented. And third, once it was clear things were going the way he wanted, he back tracked. He started to take back what he said and wiggle his way out of it. That shows just how insincere he was being. Madison didn’t give an ultimatum, so she didn’t need to backtrack. Luke P was a very clear ultimatum, so when he then had to back it up and leave, he didn’t. If he had, I would have respected him for that. (not for everything else that season – just for that) But he didn’t, which shows his true colors and character.

    2. 100% agree with you Angela in your view on each girl. I see him and Hannah Ann being the most compatible at this point, as much as I wanted it to be Madison. But like you said I don’t know that Peter will see this. I feel bad for Madison at this point. As for Victoria, I thought she needed to go the week of hometowns if not way before! So many red flags in that relationship.

    3. Angela I couldn’t agree with you more. Each point you made are exactly the thoughts I shared with my husband while watching last night.

    4. I completely agree with all of this! And my comment expressed most of these things too! I think Of the girls left Hannah Ann is his best match but I think wanting what he can’t have is blinding him a bit and that’s why he ends up going after Madison. I love Madison, but Peter is going to have to do a major whole life overhaul for it to work long term and to meet her expectations (which I don’t think she should have to compromise l!)

    5. Hi! On Roses and Rose yesterday, Chris H says the Julie theory is “much ado about nothing.” I personally think this theory has legs, so was a little sad when he seemed to quash that. But then I got to thinking… the Shakespeare play by that title was all about all sorts of scheming and covering up of the true love of 2 couples…. hmmmmm!

  16. I’m soooo angry right now at Peter! I Have been Team Madison from the start and she deserves WAY BETTER since she set her standards with him ahead of time but he made bad choices. His relationship with Victoria is a joke. Communication is number one and they have none. I don’t know what to think about Hannah, but I haven’t seen them have any realistic conversation this whole time. UGH

    Also 100% agree the girls rooming together is ridiculous.

  17. I agree with every single thing you said, Ali!!! I have so much respect for Madison.I think Madison is Peter’s choice in the end, so I’m surprised and disappointed he would sleep with one, or both, women. If peter and Madison aren’t together, she would make the most PERFECT bachelorette to date!

  18. I agree with you Ali 100%.
    Also, yes, it’s the Bachelor & we know there are fantasy suites… I don’t like the way it’s expected that if you’ve said yes to the fantasy suite that you’re going to have sex. You can still have intimacy & not have sex. I wouldn’t want to sign up for the show because if it got to that point & I said yes then everyone would assume that I had had sex. I liked it better when it was kept private & a mystery to the viewers.

  19. I feel bad that Peter feels he has to apologize and feel guilt for exploring two other relationships. I feel bad for H.A. and V. when they watch this episode regardless of who he ends up with. They are going to feel used or less than because he’s sitting there crying and apologizing to M. for his actions and feelings for them. Are they going to now feel “dirty.” (I hope not!!) If he only has feelings for M., he should have ended the show, told H.A. and V. goodby and walked off with M. For as “young” as H.A. may seem, she’s pretty mature in her thoughts about this week and what he needs to do to get to the end with a women he loves and who is on the same page with. She understands what she signed up for. Though I completely respect M.’s goals and expectations for herself, I feel she’s coming off judgmental and yes, what the flip did she think she were signing up for? Did she not think there would be intimacy? Come on!! I don’t care for V. ~ too many red flags, too many issues and drama. I’m not sure I can see him with anyone in the end now. His mom pleading with him to go after a girl and bring her home to us was a little over the top, dramatic. Maybe a tad creepy.

    1. Oh my gosh, finally! Someone thinks the mom is over the top! I agree with her crying and saying bring her home to us made me uncomfortable. She is the mom that applauded her son for having sex 4 times tho! She will be the mom that is right in the middle of her sons relationship every day. Whoever he chooses, be ready for a mommas boy for sure. I think peter is very immature and I’m not a fan of him at all.

      1. Dena, I completely agree with you. I remember watching her be so happy about the windmill sex and thinking, wait, I have a grown son. While I’m not naive about what he did before he was married with kids, I certainly don’t want his escapades announced on TV and I would not be applauding and cheering. She’s way too involved to be the mom of a grown man.

  20. I won’t be watching the next Bachelor or Bachelorette if they are under 30 or are youtubers and models. Done with people chasing fame and people that are way to young. I miss old seasons when there was standards. ( said by a 33 yr old)

  21. I respect her choices but it seems like major red flags they aren’t meant to be! Her faith matters to her and it doesn’t seem like they could ever be on the same page!

  22. First, didn’t it seem like he said at some point one other person or something like that?? I felt like he was saying maybe there was only one possibility that he may have slept with? Then all he said, when he admitted it, was that he was intimate. After watching how mad Victoria got about Madison, I wonder if he didn’t sleep with her and she’s pissed because Madison made him not and she know think he likes her more?? Any thoughts? Also I agree with everything. I get you go on the show and it’s expected but I think there are other ways to be intimate without going all the way. I totally agree with her for not being able to get engaged after he just slept with someone. I couldn’t. Can’t wait to see how this all pans out.

    1. I was totally wondering same thing based on Victoria’s reaction! I just find it really hard to believe he passed up the opportunity with Victoria. Their relationship is a mess and he isn’t thinking clearly or making wise decisions so it would be shocking if he didn’t sleep with her. Haha.

  23. First of all, thank you for always sharing your thoughts and being real with us!! I watched most of the first episode and a little of the second but it was too much drama for me. So I have relied on your blog all the way up to hometowns and then I joined back in. Thanks again for sharing and keeping it where I didn’t have to watch. Lol!

    Now on to Madison… I don’t think it’s an ultimatum at all though and just her telling him here’s what I believe. I really wish she had told him a little earlier in the season personally and not wait that long. Either way I love her and I totally understand where she’s coming from in her beliefs and staying true to herself. I had/have the exact same beliefs as her. I waited until my wedding night as well. To think that the man I would be marrying has slept with someone else a week prior to asking for my hand would not be something I could handle. Unless she has never watched The Bachelor or The Bachelorette, she knows about the fantasy suites. Someone might not use It so I get in one way why she comes on BUT she knows what Peter did with Hannah last season. I believe it’s all a little unrealistic especially with his past, how he has kissed all the girls in front of others, etc. I know I couldn’t get past it and I guess for me I just would never even put myself in that situation with Peter’s history.

    Hannah Ann is definitely young. That comment on you do what you have to is just so unrealistic.

    I feel like that there is more I wanted to say but I’ve forgotten anything else right now. Lol!

  24. Agree with you about Madison. She stuck up for herself. Yay. And Luke got so much crap and he was just much more vocal and emotional. Not much difference there with their stories.. This show has really sucked the bag this season. I can’t put my finger on it. Is it the girls drama? Peter is sooo indecisive. Not crazy about the other 2 girls at all. I feel Peter is NOT ready for a commitment. Actions speak louder than words.

  25. Everything you said really made me think about the situation a little differently. I agree that if Peter knew Madison was the one & that sleeping with the other would hurt her, he shouldn’t have done it. I also understand not wanting to get engaged to someone knowing he was intimate with someone in the same week. I understand what you’re saying about not fully knowing what you’re getting into, but you do know that these relationships are not exclusive. I may tell a guy I’m not ready to get engaged until we’ve been exclusive for awhile, but I don’t think it would be fair to ask him to not to sleep with other women knowing he’s still in other relationships.

    I agree that it’s not fair to compare Madison to Luke P. Luke was a liar, manipulator, & a gas-lighter. He used religion to shirk responsibility for his actions, and shame others. Madison didn’t do any of those things. She also gets along with the other women & didn’t lie to or about them.

    It really seems like Peter just isn’t ready for marriage or a serious relationship. I agree with what you’re saying about his relationship with Victoria. Part of me thinks he feeds off the drama a little bit.

    I don’t think his actions are coming from a bad place, I just don’t think he considers the consequences. Leading the women in may not be intentional, but that doesn’t make it right. To be honest at times I’ve found him to be exhausting.

  26. You are spot on Ali- love reading your re-cap of each episode. So frustrated at the producers for making the girls stay together… so tired of the drama this season. We love the show for the fun dates and to watch them fall in love- not for the fights and the pettiness. I love madison. So proud of her for standing up for what she believes in. Maybe she shouldn’t have gone on the show- but I doubt she really thought she would be in the end three! Disappointed in Peter. He didn’t have to have sex in the fantasy suites- he could have stayed up talking, laughing and snuggling. He is going to miss out on a great girl- one that he is in love with because he has no self- control. Can’t wait to get rid of Victoria F. She is toxic!!!

  27. I agree! I think Madi so eloquently expressed her feelings and concerns and my heart broke for her. I had the same beliefs and expectations as Madi. I think she totally understands what the show is about and doesn’t expect Peter to have the same beliefs. However, when it comes to a proposal the next week, its highly concerning to her. If peter knows he wants to choose Madi, then why wouldn’t he refrain from the other women? If he is unsure who he wants to pick, then I would also see how Madi would be unsure about their future since he has to make a huge decision in a week. I think it’s really less about the sex and more about where Peter’s heart is….and it appears he really doesn’t know where his heart is at this point.

  28. I thought it was in very poor choice that they had them stay together. And it was probably because of how strong Maddie felt about the whole fantasy suite situation.

  29. I agree with your comments about them having to share a room. It was disgusting, disrespectful and difficult to watch. It is one thing knowing they are going on overnight dates and and another being there in the morning when the return. Uncomfortable for all parties.

    Watching tonight made me take a second look at fantasy suites. My experience listening to most bachelors/ bachelorettes is they knew well before fantasy suites who they are going to pick so to sleep with other contestants knowing full well you are not selecting them is selfish and cruel. If Peter truly loves Madison and she told him before the fantasy suite dates how she feels about him sleeping with the other women and he chooses to anyway it portrays him as selfish. Had she not told him until after the fact it would be different, but she told him about it before the dates and then for her to have to watch both of them women return from their dates was too much.
    I like what Hannah’s dad said to Tyler about fantasy suites, often it is about the hook-up and in the moment.
    It does seem to take away from the chosen relationship when you see someone who asked you to marry them, they told someone else they were falling in love with them and slept with them a week before they proposed to you or accepted your proposal.

    This is the first season I am ready for the season to end. It nor Peter has actually been what I thought it/he would be. On Hannah’s season he seemed so sincere and mature neither of which he seemed on his own season. He listened to much to other people and not enough to himself. The second time Victory P walked away when the conversation was difficult she should have gone home. When she said before her overnight date how much she loved him seemed so insincere and he never told her he was falling in love with her like he did Hannah Ann and Madison but all indications is slept with her. I am not sure if he slept with Hannah Ann or not.

    Is anyone as excited as me about seeing a season of an older bachelor or bachelorette. Someone older that has more life experiences to draw from. I am really excited.

  30. I think it’s okay that Madison spoke her mind after the Rose Ceremony. But I think it through Peter for a loop. He seemed to bristle a little when he said he’s got 2 other relationships to think about.
    However, as much as I would agree with you Ali about him having feelings for Madison from the beginning, he expresses strong feelings for Hannah Ann (and to a lesser extent, Victoria). Honestly, I felt like that would be as hard to take watching back as his fiancée as the intimacy issue! But I do agree with Madison that if he didn’t know a week before a proposal that he loved me enough to forgo intimacy with the others, how could I trust that he really knows when he proposes.
    On the flip side – you don’t always know what you have or want until it is gone. Maybe he (like Colton) needed this to make him realize he loves her? He really sounded genuinely in love when he begged her not to go.

  31. I’ve been reading your blog for a couple years and this is the first post of yours that I completely agree with. But what I thought was going to happen next was Madi going back to her hotel where the other girls are.

  32. I don’t blame Madison at all for sticking to her standards and I respect her for letting Peter know beforehand. It isn’t at all unreasonable not to want your fiance to sleep with other women days before he proposes, and I hate that HA and V were so catty about this. The fact that Peter chose to go another direction with the fantasy suites (which is also a valid way to go) shows that he really wasn’t putting his relationship with Madison first at this point, which surprised me (and obviously her). This major difference when it comes to their personal values, despite having feelings for one another, to me shows they are not yet ready for a lifetime commitment. Feelings alone just aren’t enough to build a stable foundation for a marriage. Peter’s wrong–when you get engaged to someone your expectations for one another do need to be the same; that’s pretty basic. But, that doesn’t mean they can’t grow together and work it out with time, like it happens with many couples in the real world. Maybe they will end up together at the end of this, but if so it really shouldn’t be as an engaged couple.

    It’s obvious that Peter and Victoria are a train wreck together and I question whether the feelings on either side are truly genuine. They may be caught up in something, but it is in no way true love or even the beginning of true love in my opinion.

    Of the three women Imo Hannah Ann is is closest to being on the same page as Peter. If he really feels the same for each of them at this point, then of the 3 it seems that she is the most compatible with him at this point. Unfortunately for HA, it looks like the prospect of losing Madison may be the epiphany he needs to prioritize that relationship, and I think HA may end up feeling very let down and led on at the end of this. Btw I too think that her seeming so young (even though she’s the same age as Madison?) creates somewhat of an icky vibe I can’t help it.

    Come to think of it, the whole fantasy suite tradition is giving me icky vibes more and more each season, especially with we as viewers being all in on it. The pressure to live up to certain expectations for the show has to somewhat factor in the decisions at least some of the participants make. Still their decisions and yes they sign up knowing about it, but to me a bit icky nonetheless.

  33. A million percent agree. He knew and he gambled. He downplayed it in his head and ultimately didn’t think he would lose her. Also TRASHY move on the producers part putting the girls in the house together. Gross. Really showing their manipulation tactic deck of cards a little too much there.

  34. I agree with what you said!! I seriously think some producers should be fired for some of the things that they did to these people!! Brutal is a word for some of it!!
    I hope they all end up happy. I agree with Madison being able to say her standards and her expectations as they all should be able to do, including Peter. He knew what her standards were and he made his choice. You can make choices and with those choices come consequences. You can’t choose the consequences. I hope Madison moves forward and finds someone who feels as she does. She deserves that! Peter and the others deserve that as well! Madi and Peter may have strong feelings for each other but I agree that maybe they just don’t line up in some of those important things. That’s okay! It hurts though to walk away from someone who you love…so hard! I hope she continues to stick with her standards! I hope Peter finds his match either here or on his own. My thought was that he wants his cake and eat it too and sometimes we can’t have it! Who knows at this point if he will get that!
    I thought Hannah was trying to tell him what he wanted to hear knowing how Madi was feeling…almost making herself look more understanding…
    The finale will be interesting! Thanks for your thoughts! I always agree with you!!

  35. YES! Thank you! I feel the same way about this whole episode. I think the women and the men for that matter have every right to question this if you are really there to have a forever with someone. I would not be ok if I knew my future husband just slept with one or two other women. Mentally I don’t believe it would be something I could get past, especially since she kindly told him her expectations before and he in a sense disregarded them completely.

    People keep saying “that’s what this show is about during fantasy suite week” but I think if you’ve watched it for a significant amount of time you would see that not EVERYONE goes into the fantasy suite. Emily chose not to spend the night with any of her three and look at Colton, he knew it was Cassie all along and he chose to change the entire basis of that week because he was in love with Cassie. The lead—Peter could have done this differently if he really wanted to because look at the exchanges between him and Madison, it’s her who he wants to be with, you can just tell! I’m thinking that if it goes any differently then him fighting for her and he ends up choosing someone else how in the world could the other girl watch the way he is with Madison in this episode and not feel like he really wanted her?!?

  36. Yeeeeeeees!!!!! Thank you Ali for this post!!! Can you forward it to all the bachelor podcasts Ive been listening to on this topic! Lol People are totally mispercieving Maddie in this situation and you had a girl’s back!
    Ive wanted to watch this episode plus simaltaneously throw my tv out the window. Help.

  37. Madison (IMO) did not give Peter an ultimatum. She respected him enough to share her truth. She has chosen to compromise and accept behaviors and choices that were difficult for her; however, she was clear that if he intended to propose to her, she would find it difficult to accept a proposal just days after he made love to her “friends)roommates”. She made it clear it was his choice, but in fairness she had to be truthful with the importance to her. Once he chose to be intimate – she now has to decide what is best for her. She may be like Colton’s Cassie and say they need to date and choose not to be engaged. The producers are obviously heartless by having the girls together in one room during fantasy week. They are the ones that seem to forget these are real people with real feelings. It’s beyond awkward and totally unacceptable. I still believe Madison and Peter can be together after the show. I also agree that Hannah Anne was insincere when you told Peter it was ok to do what he needed and she would support his intimacy dates. It sounds like she isn’t really ready for an engagement – just winning a contest. I could be wrong about her.

  38. Wow what an episode.
    Let’s start with Hannah Ann…I still don’t think they are a good match and yes she looks 12 which is totally strange to watch them make out.

    Victoria is so not ready for marriage and needs a few years to mature.

    Madison. Where do we start.
    Do I think she deserves love? YES
    Should she have come on the Bachelor? NO
    She should already have a problem with how sexual he is to start with! He did it 4 times with Hannah in a windmill!! That should be a dealbreaker for someone who is that religious!!
    And for her to not even say anything until the end is WRONG. She should have told him way earlier on that she’s a virgin and if he’s intimate with anyone she’s out. She would have been sent home long ago if he had that info. You don’t go on the Bachelor and then start throwing out ultimatums. She needs to meet her guy at bible study. She clearly is looking for someone just as religious as her so again “WHY THE HECK DID SHE COME ON THIS SHOW”

    I believe he will end up alone. He belongs with Hannah B anyways😉

  39. Agree with you 100%. It’s refreshing yo see that a woman IS NOT OKAY with a man who professes his love sleeps with someone nights before proposing. This show has actually miss guided people in thinking thats its okay to sleep around, test the waters in order to make a decision. I may be old school but kudos to you Madison. These are real people in a real situation, its just not TV. We need to remember that and most of us would agree and feel like Madison in reality.

  40. I agree, Madison didn’t really give him an ultimatum. She handled it very differently than Like P last season. I don’t even think she’s wrong for going on the show, Sean Lowe was very clear he was saving himself for marriage and nothing would be happening on his overnight dates. It’s not out of the ordinary. However, she did know going into the season that Peter is Mr Windmill. I feel the only thing she did wrong was wait until she’d made it to fantasy suite week to bring it up. I think Peter has known for a long time that it’s Madison. I don’t think it was fair to kind of spring something that is SO important to her at the last second. I think if he’d known well before this week, things would have gone differently. He either wouldn’t have gone so far into “this is my final girl” mentally, or he would have realized that sleeping with the other 2 girls was not the move to make. Not to mention, I just don’t think they’re the right fit. I think they have strong feelings for each other, but that’s not enough to make a relationship work long term. I think he’s a spiritual person, but I don’t think he’s the kind of spiritual person that Madison is looking for. And you can’t just make yourself more religious or have more faith to please the person you’re with. I think if Peter picks Madison I don’t think it will last long term, because I think they want different things in life.

  41. Madison is EVERY girl in this type of situation. I commend her for respectfully and maturely addressing her issues with it. In any situation, on this show, I would think if you’re so in love with someone to get engaged at the end then you were just as in love with them the week before during fantasy suite dates. But that’s just my opinion. What I think was ridiculous was Hannah Ann essentially giving him permission to sleep with the other women. I can’t believe that she was really ok with that situation. My biggest issue with the episode was the girls being in the same room. Shame on the producers for that. I have NEVER seen any contests, on The Bachelor or The Bachelorette, together once hometowns are over besides at the rose ceremony. In the end, I really truly hope Peter ends up with Madison and they can make it work 🙂

  42. I got the sense that Peter and Madison already know it’s each other. At the beginning of the episode, it was like he was about to say “do you want me to end all of this right now?” Which I took as, do you want me to end the show right now? At this point, I think he should know in his gut who he’s going to pick, and if it’s her, I don’t know why he would sleep with anyone else. What’s the point? Especially if the woman that you want to be your wife has expressed concerns about it. Again, if he knows it’s Madison, then it’s just pointless sex with anyone else and a risk to his relationship with Madison at that point that he chose to make. I don’t feel like it was a Luke P thing. Luke P was shaming and was definitely a last play for Hannah at that point. It would be different if he had seemed more genuine about it. I remember his was almost about controlling her and slightly abusive. That’s just my thoughts and opinions though.

    He and Victoria are a hot mess. They haven’t really built there relationship on anything but her explaining her way out of stuff and saying I don’t know. I think he’s just attracted to her, but nothing more.

  43. I agree with you completely Ali. I think Madison handled herself very well. She shared how she felt before the dates started so that he could have all the information ahead of making a decision that could change their relationship for her. I respect what she said to him a lot. She’s not saying because I’m not having sex until marriage I expect you to not have had sex until marriage. She’s saying if you love me enough to propose to me in 6 days, you should know that now, and you should love me enough to not need to sleep with one or two other people to determine that. I think that’s what people aren’t getting. Yes, she knew he’s had sex before, all of America does. It’s not about the fact that he’s not saving himself. It’s about not sleeping with someone else right before proposing to her. I agree with Madison’s actions, even if she wasn’t saving herself and they had had sex, I think it’s completely reasonable to expect that, show or not, someone who thinks they love you enough to propose to you shouldn’t need to sleep with someone else a few days before the proposal to make that decision. I also think it’s completely reasonable for someone to be in three relationships and not know which one is the strongest and therefore, in the setting of this show, have sex with multiple people to determine who they really want to move forward with. However, I don’t think that scenario should end with a proposal. That scenario should end with “you’re the one I ‘love’ the most and want to give it a go with and see if we can be successful” that maybe ends with a proposal down the road after living in the real world. I’ve obviously not been in the situation and I’m sure everything is heightened, but I just don’t see how anyone on any season should be at a point of proposing if they needed to sleep with multiple people to make that decision.

  44. Does anyone see a Colton fence jump coming? Only me? Lol! I know its not the same, and Colton seemed to have more sense in this situation. He knew what he wanted and went for it. Peter seems so confused. Who could blame him really, but I would think he would know by now to have one of his leading ladies feelings in consideration on an overnight. BUT at the same time, Madison didn’t tell him some very key bits of information. Ugh…I dont know. Ali, I know you have said before that at this point in the “game” you know who you want. If he really wants Madison, why did he sleep with the others? Why not pull a Colton, and drop the others and go for it? So, now I’m not sure who he loves/wants. This season has left me confused and frustrated. I guess I’m anticipating with all the sneak peaks that Madison leaves, and he decides to go after her. Fingers crossed!
    As for Madison, I’m so torn with what to think about her. I’ve always been a #teammaddy fan, and thought that she would be one of the women in the end. I also applaud her 100% for sticking to her faith and values, but I’m having a hard time with her not telling him sooner what she wanted from him, and how she would feel about the overnights. I can’t wait to see how this plays out. I pray that she found the clarity she needed to make that decision……and I hope that Peter realized what he truly wanted. Maybe it wasn’t any of these girls?!

  45. I seriously couldn’t agree more. I think Peter has known for the entirety of the show that it is Madison, but he took a free pass on sleeping with the other women. I 100% believe he could have controlled himself, and honored Madison’s wishes if he knows in his heart that she’s the one for him. I’m super disappointed in that. And my heart does break for her. This show is so unorthodox. What happens on the show would NEVER fly in real life. So it’s unfair to assume these contestants have to all of a sudden be okay with the overall concept of their future husband sleeping with someone says before proposing to them. It almost appeared like Hannah Anne and Victoria were oddly too comfortable with it. Another thought I had was if Peter is thinking his relationship with Madison all the way thru… she is saving herself for MARRIAGE. not like Colton where he hadn’t found the right girl. They could get engaged and be engaged for 1-2 years and Madison still won’t sleep with him, so would he be really comfortable with that?? Being in a relationship where sex is not a factor. I’m not so sure Peter could agree to that. Seems like sex is vvvv important to him.

  46. I’m pretty disappointed in Peter. He really couldn’t control himself? not even with Victoria with whom he has zero connection?
    Maybe he was hopeful for more love-making compliments during the final rose show. If so, what an ego!!
    At this point, I feel like Madison is too good for him and I hope she walks. He just simply had zero respect for her and her feelings. What a great girl!!

  47. I agree with you 100% Ali! Madison’s delivery is completely different then Luke P to Hannah. She did not give Peter an ultimatum. Rather let him know where she stands in the relationship and how truly important her values and standards are. Regardless of what she signed up for. I think it is realistic for her to believe if Peter really loves and cares for her that he would hold himself to the same standards and refrain from physical intimacy with the other 2. His relationship with Victoria F is toxic and they shouldn’t have even made it this far – which is a red flag for him in a relationship. Peter is a nice guy, he still thinks with other parts beyond his head and heart. To be honest. Maddison is too good for him. If it is her in the end, I hope he can come to understand where she is coming from and this doesn’t cause futher resentment in their relationship. P.S. TAYSHIA for Bachelorette!!

  48. I too believe that Madison did not give an ultimatum. She basically shared that it would be personally hard for her to move forward in their relationship if he chose to be intimate with the other 2 girls, which is valid! And she said multiple times she was not trying to tell him what to do. In the previews next week where Peter states, “I think I handled this week all wrong,” no crap, Sherlock! I was honestly so disappointed in Peter because if he knew (which in my opinion he did) that Madison was going to be it, he shouldn’t have even considered sleeping with the other women. It just seems he had no self control in that regards. Cant wait to see how it all turns out though!

  49. Normally I agree with Ali but this time I just see it differently. I think Peter is truly torn about his decision so he wanted to spend time with each woman (in whatever way they both wanted to). I also think that by now, everyone who goes on the show should be at least thinking long term. Otherwise what’s the point, unless you are there to promote yourself. I think Madison handles the situation appropriately but I think Peter did too.
    I just don’t see it working out for anybody in the long run. Can’t wait for Women Tell All. Wish Ali could join Chris Harrison and ask the tough questions. Sometimes Chris is too nice.

  50. I see both sides with Madison. Yes, she should stand up for what she believes in and I appreciate that she told him before Fantasy week- getting mad at him after without voicing her opinion would be wrong. However, I think she should have told him at the same time WHY this was important to her, and that she was saving herself for marriage. That fact alone adds so much more depth to her reasoning, and I think if he had known that, he would have known it was more than just a statement to “tell him what to/not to do.”
    I agree that he’s known it’s Madison all along- you can visibly see their excitement when they are together, and you don’t see him act that way with anyone else. That alone, I would hope that he would be able to refrain himself. But, maybe he’s not as sure as we think he is?
    I like Hannah Ann, but don’t think she’ll be the one in the end. Yes, she looks young but I really can’t hold that against her!
    I honestly can’t STAND Victoria and their relationship. It’s such a toxic relationship and I hate that he keeps defending it. At one point last night he had made a comment along the line of “I love everything about our relationship, except the communication.” Um… that’s hands down, one of the most important parts of a marriage- if you’re having trouble now- it’s not going to get better.

    1. Thank you for saying that you can’t hold Hannah Ann looking young against her. I know it was jusr a small comment but in searching you’re the only one who has said it.

      I am a 28 year old married woman who “looks young”. I am also a nanny and when I take the kids I care for, who are two and thee, out people will sometimes give me dirty looks or ask me if I’m their mom in a clearly judgemental way. Again, I am 28 and married. Having a couple toddlers would not be out of line, but because I “look young” I get judged for it.

      To me it’s upsetting to think that someone could see me out with my husband and find us uncomfortable because they would think I’m too young. She can’t control how she looks. For me this is just not the thing to be focusing on, we all know she’s old enough to be on this show, that is all that should matter. I agree with nearly every other point Ali has made, but this one is a sore spot for me.

  51. I applaud Madison for staying true to herself and sticking to her expectations about a relationship with her potential husband! Everyone applauded Kaitlyn Bristow and others when they were open about being sexual and intimate with people on the show so why can’t we all be as supportive of Madison’s faith based views and support that too! It’s all good and it’s what makes the world go ‘round – everyone is different! I do think she could have handled the conversation after the rose ceremony a little better though. I feel like she tried to beat around the bush a little and imply her expectations without putting everything out on the table with him. I can see how he was a little frustrated because she kinda came out of no where with it and worded it as “if you sleep with anyone else” which doesn’t exactly imply that she’s a virgin. It almost makes it sound like she’s expecting an intimate encounter with him, but no one else can have one. I think he would have been more clear and less confused and frustrated about her expectations if she had just said I want you to know that I’m a virgin and I’ve made a commitment to save myself for my husband. At this point in our relationship I want you to know that it wouldn’t line up with my values if you were to be intimate with other women and then expect me to accept a proposal a few days later. I think he didn’t understand where she was coming from and why it was such a big deal to her because he still had no idea she was a virgin until after his fantasy suite dates with the other women! I think that’s why he was so apologetic for disappointing her. I do however, think he knows it’s her and has for a bit because he said in the episode “I love her” in reference to Madison and with Hannah Ann and Victoria he says “I’m falling in love” I think he just wanted to be intimate because he’s a man and they are hot. And I don’t know how many bachelors we have to have that it blows up in their face to tell multiple women they are falling in love before they learn from others past mistakes and quit doing that! 🤦🏻‍♀️ Obviously the woman you choose in the end will find out that you told the other girls you are falling in love and she will have a problem with it and it will make her feel like she’s not special. Future Bachelors – just don’t say it!!!!!

  52. I think that he knew he wanted Maddie in the end but he wanted to, as “the Bachelor,” sleep with the other girls because the idea of sex during fantasy suites comes with the role. He should have been more understanding of the fact that she didn’t believe in getting engaged 6 days after he slept with other women. He says, “well I have 3 relationships.” Well Peter, are you in this for 3 relationships or to find your wife? I think his priorities are not aligned yet and he’s not ready for marriage. He has a lot of soul searching to do.

  53. 100% agree with you!! I LOVE that Madison stood up for herself & her beliefs. It showed her maturity. And Hannah Ann killed me when on her date she said “do whatever you have to do!”… I feel like it just showed her age, where she would let a guy “do anything” as long as he comes back to her in the end. That’s not how real relationships work (outside of the show in the real world). MAJOR props to Madison. And I was extremely disappointed in Peter too. The reason Madison was so heartbroken b/c in her heart, I think she believes they would end up together. And if Peter really felt that way too, he should have TOTALLY had the self control to not sleep with one/both of the other girls. She told him how it would be hard for her to continue if he did that.. and he did it anyway. THAT’S what’s so crushing. And based on the previews… looks like Peter regrets what he did w/ the other girl(s).

  54. Madison should have mentioned all that earlier in the season. Peter was the windmill guy. She knew he wasn’t a virgin.
    When Madison’s dad said something about her being “pure” Peter should have questioned what she was all about.
    I agree that Peter’s and Victoria’s relationship is too strained already and they are still in paradise. They’d kill each other in the real world!

    1. I don’t even get how Peter didn’t know what PURE meant.
      She told him a date ago how vital religion is to her.
      Her dad was tough on him.
      his shades of gray crap he seems to be having makes him look inept.

  55. As someone who waited until marriage to have sex, it was literally the best decision we ever made for our relationship. It wasn’t that we didn’t want to have sex before. Believe me, it was a struggle not to, but we made a commitment because of our faith and for each other. It was also important that to get to know each other in a way that wasn’t based on just sex and how attracted we were to one another, because let’s be honest, all that fades with time. Sex is an important part, but intimacy is different and deeper. It’s what Madison described that you give on your wedding day, your whole self. It’s because tomorrow one of us could become terminally ill, or get in an accident, or whatever the case, and sex may be out of the equation, but your love and the fact this person is a part of you is what remains strong. It is important because when you are taking care of kids and working, you may not be able to have as much sex as you did before and you need to still like each other so when you have the time for sex you want to lol. My point is he did not have to sleep with them. He is clearly sexually attracted to these women, but use the time without the cameras to get to know each other because in the real world you aren’t going on romantic dates , making out, and having sex all day. He is a passionate man, but there is plenty of time for passion later AFTER the fact. It’s no wonder a majority of these relationships from the show never work out. Yet for some reason I keep watching lol.

  56. Peter is coming off as immature the sense of what is needed in a relationship. How he described how he views his future relationship with Victoria and seeing all the negatives there as something he wants in a relationship is sad.

  57. Okay, I agree completely Madison has a right to make her choices, stick to them and be respected for that. There is also a fact that everyone on the show knows what it is about. It is incumbent upon the bachelor to explore the real opportunity for a relationship with any or all of the contestants until the final decision. I could not accept that so I would not even be on the show. Not fair to not accept the rules to get on and then change your acceptance. He made that agreement , as did she. He is choosing to stand by that contract is being the bachelor.
    Please keep in mind that He Did Not say he had sex with the other women, only that he was intimate. It is no one else’s business and unfair to those women for her to want to know what they did, regardless of her stipulation. The truth is, this man has probably slept with many women in his life. The timing of the show is such that there are some months between the time he makes the choice and that episode airs, so it is not a matter of days between the time he was with others and would be with her, which she said was her issue.
    We must also consider that this is a show for profit and some, or perhaps all, of the drama is created to engage viewers.
    Finally, love is love and when we find the right person, it might not make sense or fit our ideal and we may decide a one time compromise is worth a lifetime of happiness. Let me be clear, not saying I think Madison should do that nor that I would; just that we could all try to be open to different viewpoints and be compassionate and empathetic to fellow humans. Okay to have an opinion and discuss, but maybe not so judgmental, especially as we really don’t have all the facts.🙏

  58. I am so disappointed in Peter. I think that he knew it would be Madison in the end, but he was intimate with someone else anyways- because intimacy doesn’t mean as much to him. And that’s fine. Everyone doesn’t have the same beliefs. But I am disappointed because he knew how much it meant to Madison. I don’t think being the last person standing and expecting that the person you’re engaged to didn’t sleep with the others is that far fetched. I disagree about Luke. For most of the season I agree he was a bad guy, but I think he approached the intimacy conversation in a similar way, Hannah knew all about his faith, and I think he was genuinely shocked that she had slept with someone. They had talked about faith so much! I’m not sure if Peter is going to end up with anyone at this point.

  59. YES! Thank you!!

    I totally applaud Madison for what she said to Peter. I 100% think she did the right thing. And did you notice at her date she said “can you excuse me for a minute” then walked away to cry? THAT is how an adult handles a situation. Take notes, Victoria.

    Speaking of Victoria.. Ali thank you for bringing up the kids thing. The whole date I was thinking, she might be fun to vaca with but is this REALLY the mother of your children? No. Probably not.

    Also, I love Ellen’s video of how all of girls greet Peter LOL. check it out if you haven’t seen it.

  60. This is so on point! I completely agree with everything you said. I also really respect Madison for not making it about the other women, but focusing on explaining why it is important to her (and especially explaining that she doesn’t want to get engaged less than a week after he had sex with someone else)!

  61. Madison had enough guts to call out what I think is a ridiculous concept in the first place. All of America is watching someone spend the night and potentially have sex with three different people just days before proposing. Maybe I am getting old but I can’t believe this is the norm for the show. If that’s what needs to be done then why even air it. It creeps me out every time they’re at dinner and they read the same card that’s been read over and over again….should you wish to forego your separate rooms etc etc just makes me shudder – eeeew – ok enough about that… Hannah Anne is gorgeous and I think she’s such a cute girl but I feel like everything that has come out of her mouth this entire season feels like it’s scripted. There really isn’t any emotion there and I highly doubt she will be the one in the end. Victoria is just a spoiled basket case & has a lot of self searching and growing up to do. That being said, I think it’ll be Madison in the end. But even if it is, I really don’t think that will last. I think their outlook in life is very different from each others, and I don’t think Peter is a good fit for her.

  62. Omg!!! I just said that last night to my fiance about how Peter told Hannah “not to worry about us” like you just dont say that unless you are 100% sure. Wrong choice of words. I agree with you about the the Luke P and Madison situation. Its def how you delivery it. I think with Luke P it came off as he was being possessive over Hannah. And of course his reputation was already ruined prior to that talk so we already hated him. Lol.

  63. Peter keeps saying that he knew who he was going to pick by week 4. If that’s Madison, then why does he need to sleep with the other women? Madison is right… it’s wrong to say you are in love with two women and sleep with both of them, then get engaged to someone else days later. Gross!

    Great write up Ali! I agree with you 100 percent.

  64. I think it was shady for the Bachelor producers to make these women live together at this point. There is thoughts of serious committments, intimacy, and things of this nature in the relationship that don’t make it in the best interests of the women

  65. Love your blog! I look forward to reading every week. I don’t have much to say about the episode, but I keep thinking Madison would be great for Peter Kraus from Rachel’s season.

  66. I think she was pretty clear on the fact that she doesn’t expect anyone to have the same standards that she has set for herself. She was also clear on the fact that she might not be able to stretch herself to be with a man that can obviously be “intimate” with multiple women in a week.
    He is not the man for her! She has a strong Christian faith. She needs a man that shares that same faith. She should let him go.

  67. I dont know if this has been said, but Maybe they kept the girls away for that 48 hours to have them return home as the other is leaving.

  68. I completely agree 100% with everything you said Ali! So proud of Madison for staying strong with who she is and what she stands for!

    1. With so much in my heart i am here to express myself on how Dr. GBOJIE saved my marriage from divorce. Myself and my husband were having some misunderstanding and it was tearing our marriage apart to the extend my husband was seeking for a divorce. So i have no option than to go to the internet to seek for solution to my problem it was there i came across Dr. GBOJIE details and about how he has helped a lot of people by restoring there relationship. I contact Dr. GBOJIE and in less than 48 hours my husband cancelled the divorce papers. Now myself and my husband live together in peace and harmony all thanks to Dr .GBOJIE for saving my marriage from breaking up. Dr. GBOJIE contact information are via email: gbojiespiritualtemple@yahoo. com

  69. Since most commenting here are incredibly nice and wise women, let me give one man’s opinion. Allow me to be a bit blunt at first please — for which I apologize in advance. Peter is an immature man who has trouble keeping ‘it’ in his pants!!! A’la Nick Vial (sorry Nick). Peter sleeping with Hannah Ann and Victoria was dead wrong when it is so obvious that he has the deepest feelings of love for Madison (whom by the way, i think is an insanely real, honest, and beautiful soul — not just a beautiful young lady) and after she honestly told him she would have a serious problem moving forward if he did. She even said it was not an ultimatum but it’s clear that she put the ball in his court and he fouled with it — seemingly twice!

    Yes, Hannah Ann is also gorgeous and sexy, but she is not on the same level of maturity as Madison. Though I do believe she is pretty mature and wise for her young age. I do like her very much as a person. Victoria is sexy, yes — but only on a physical level and that is the LEAST important of all. She is way too insecure, sensitive, combative, and immature for a long term romantic relationship, let alone marriage. IMHO!

    If Maddie can truly get past Peter being physically intimate (notice I did not say emotionally intimate) with Victoria, and perhaps on both levels of intimacy with Hannah Ann, do I think it could work between Peter and Madison? Of course I do. Any two people who truly love one another can make it work WITH some work. BUT I have doubts only because of what may be a chasm ultimately too wide to cross — that being their spiritual maturity. As a Christian, I know for a fact that it IS truly possible for Peter to grow spiritually, and maybe it is Madison that is God’s instrument to that end. But Peter, as I said at the beginning, seems to not even know himself. And that concerns me not only for his sake but for Madison’s.

    For the record, I am rooting for Peter and Madison because I think that they ultimately can become an amazing couple!

  70. Agree 1000%. Every season I literally think, “how can anyone be ok with a person sleeping with someone else (or worse, multiple people) just days before proposing?” And Maddie FINALLY said exactly what I have been thinking all these years! 👏🏻

  71. I’ve watched these shows since the beginning. So, SOOO many Bachelor/Bachelorettes have said they know who the end person is, pretty early in. It might be down to two, but it’s usually pretty clear. I’ve always thought Madison has been his #1 from pretty early on. With that in mind, I think if he really loved her and wanted to marry her, he wouldn’t want to sleep with other people. He would have been chomping at the bit to have his date with her. I think he’s there for the physical attraction. I figured him out pretty early on after his date with Sydney. He was all over that and let her go a week or two after. With all that said, I have always thought it was Hannah that was going to come back in the end. With the previews, I’m still guessing that. I don’t see anyone as his wife.

  72. I’m behind on watching and reading your posts. I personally believe he wanted to pick Madison at the end of this and knew it in his heart. I however don’t blame him for sleeping with someone else because he truly didn’t get what he needed reciprocated from Madi like he did Hannah Ann (emotionally). If! Madi was the first fantasy suite I believe he would have gotten what he needed from her and I don’t believe he would have slept with anyone else. Unfortunate

Shop Ali's Feed

Click an image to shop
@alifedotowsky